Red Flag Flying on the Roof of the World - part 3

Prachand: In the theoretical sense we use the term people's army. But as a formal name of the army, we are not saying, "This is our PLA, People's Liberation Army." We have a people's army, but we have not called this form of organization the "People's Liberation Army." Now we have a goal of forming companies. We are organized now, up to the platoon. And you saw the Special Task Force-this is a step, moving toward forming companies.

When we sustain a company formation, when there are two, three, four companies, and, at the same time, there are platoons elsewhere-then we will say this is our strong army. Our vision is that when we have companies, then we will have a strong army to have a base area. That is also the other criteria.

And to establish base areas a particular national situation and international situation is also necessary. This means there are big contradictions among the ruling classes-they are fighting among each other-and there is also an unstable situation with India. Because for us, ultimately, we will have to fight with the Indian army. That is the situation. Therefore we have to take into account the Indian army. When the Indian army comes in with thousands and thousands of soldiers, it will be a very big thing. But we are not afraid of the Indian Army because, in one way, it will be a very good thing.

Prachand: Yes, they will give us lots of guns. And lots of people will fight them. This will be a national war. And it will be a very big thing. They will have many difficulties intervening. It will not be so easy for them. But if they stupidly dare...they will dare, they will be compelled. They will do that stupidity.

We have to prepare for that. And for that reason we are saying we will also need a particular international situation. And for us this has to do mainly with India, Indian expansionism. When there is an unstable situation in India and a strong mass base there in support of People's War in Nepal and there are contradictions within the Indian ruling class-at that point we can seize, we can establish and declare that we have base areas, that we have a government.

When we declare we have made a base area then formally we will make a central government. We are thinking that when Rolpa, Rukum, Jarjarkot, Salyan become a liberated zone, then we will declare the People's Republic of Nepal-the government of the People's Republic of Nepal. That government will be in the center, and there will also be base areas, guerrilla zones, some prospective base area zones, different kinds of zones. But when a base area is declared, then the People's Republic of Nepal will also be declared.

Therefore, just now, we are not saying we have established base areas. But in the practical sense you understand, when you were there in Rolpa and Rukum, you saw that there is a kind of base area-where we are exercising power. We are collecting taxes, we are holding people's court, we are controlling the forests, all these things. There, we have the squad, platoon, and Special Task Force. And the police do not dare come into these areas. This is a kind of preliminary base area. This is the process of forming base areas.

RW: Let me just clarify. You said that once a base area is formed the People's Republic of Nepal would be declared. You're saying this would be declared before the seizure of power nationwide ?

Prachand: We have not exactly drawn up a detailed plan. But in general our thinking is that when we are in the position of first declaring a base area in one region of the country, other regions should be near to being base areas. Like in the Eastern and Middle Region, a form of power will have to be openly exercised. Until that time, we cannot make a liberated zone in the West. But with that situation we can organize a big mass movement in Kathmandu and other cities also. We are thinking like this. It is not final and it has not been already decided. But we generally think that in Nepal we can do it like this, because we already have a central united front. And we have a plan of making this united front as a tool for revolutionary struggle on the central level, and a tool for people's power, on the local level. This is our definition of the united front. On the local level it should be an instrument of exercising power. On the central level it should be an instrument of propaganda and revolutionary mass struggle.

When that kind of situation develops, then we can make this central united front a form of a people's republic, a form of people's republic for propaganda value, political value, and to crush the enemy and arouse the masses. On the central level, we will have to make a form of government. But before this we are not saying we have a form of government-it is a united front.

RW: Declaring a new government would also have international implications because you would demand to be recognized internationally.

Prachand: Yes, international recognition-all these things we will have to do. In our Fourth Plenum these questions came up. Should we now say we have a formal government ? No, it would be premature. We must say that it is premature, it is not time to say this. But when we look at the whole process of development, we see that, ultimately, at one point we will have to declare a new government and the president and the republic, the ministry and all these things. And we will appeal to the world masses that this is the people's government.

We are also saying that we will not liberate only two, three, four districts and not care about other regions or the capital city. In Nepal when we liberate an area and declare our government-and it is our base area in the Western Region-then we will need a clear and well-defined plan for the whole country and masses. There should be a big mass upsurge in other parts of the country. Without such mass upsurge and mass struggle in all other prospective base areas and guerrilla zones at the time, then militarily we would not be able to sustain our base area. Because at this time India will also come at us, and the police force will be centralized to crush us. Then thousands of masses will be slaughtered.

RW: So a base area can only be established if the People's War is strong throughout the whole country.

RW: Maybe you could speak briefly on the question of building a new culture among the people. In particular, there were two things that struck me in my travels. One was the particular culture of sacrifice and devotion to the party and what role that plays in developing the People's War and the revolutionary consciousness of the people. The second thing is more general, the question of developing a culture of rebelling against feudal traditions and revolutionizing social relations among people.

Prachand: On this question I want to say that training the masses in the spirit of sacrifice is very important because in the era of imperialism and proletarian revolution, in today's whole situation, without sacrifice, without bloodshed, we cannot seize power, and we cannot transform the whole society on a new basis. Therefore there is the question of sacrifice, of shedding blood, just as you saw with the martyrs in the West. People want to be martyrs. The people feel that to be martyrs is to be respected. This is the great feeling which will enable us to change the whole feudal, individualistic, and anarchist outlook prevailing in this society. When you live among those comrades, those families of martyrs-martyrs' brothers, mothers, sons-you see that a kind of cultural transformation is going on inside them and their feelings.

When one of the comrades is martyred we vigorously make it a question of pride and historical importance. And the mother and father, the parents of that martyr, will then feel that, "Now my one son has died, but there are thousands and thousands of others who are now my sons." This is the great feeling. This is the great change that has happened. Those parents see that "everybody is my son-hundreds of young people are now my sons." The whole feudal and individualistic, sectarian culture that has prevailed has been changed upside down. We encourage, for our cultural revolution, this kind of sacrifice, and we glorify this kind of sacrifice. Because we know, in this era, in today's world situation, thousands and thousands of people will have to be prepared to be sacrificed.

Mao said, if there is a third world war, everybody cannot be killed. Maybe half the population will be gone and half the population will remain and a new world will emerge. It's not that Mao was irresponsible to say this. The spirit of what he said is not that millions of people should die. It was the spirit of making a new world. It was the spirit of transforming the world.

And in a more general sense, you asked about overall how to change feudalism. There are two questions here, I think. One is the party should make a complete plan, and there should be a complete effort to do this. There should be a developed ideological and political line and training to change the feudal relations. Second, we have to make a concrete plan for every region. Because, just as I said, although Nepal is small, then again, it is big. There are many kinds of culture here. Some are tribal cultures, more primitive cultures, upper caste cultures-there are all different types of cultures. And we cannot make one plan for all of these.

For the whole Himalayan region, we should make a complete plan-looking at the cultural problems, traditional chains, different kinds of tribal problems that are there. And in the mountainous region, in the Western Region, as you saw, there are not so many temples. But when you go to Kathmandu there are so many temples-it is a capital of temples. Therefore we have to make a conscious effort for every region, for every nationality. What are their traditional chains, what forms of feudal exploitation and feudal oppression are prevailing in that nationality-we have to make efforts to consciously crush these things.

And the last point is that the main question is struggle. In the process of struggle, the masses transform themselves. Struggle is the main vehicle of transformation. Other things are secondary.

RW: To follow up this question, there is the particular role of women in the People's War and the question of breaking down the feudal oppression of women. One thing that we learned from the class struggle and revolutionary process in China is that there is a dialectical relationship between the ideological and political struggle-transforming the thinking of people-and transforming the actual social, economic and family relations that hold women back, that prevent women from playing an equal role in society.<\d><\n> In other words, as long as women still have the main responsibility of taking care of children and the housework, these kinds of things, they will be prevented from playing a full role in society and in the revolution. So new forms have to be found in society to solve this contradiction. And this is a process of class struggle among the people-to transform the thinking of the people in order to change the institutions and to develop new revolutionary institutions which change the relations between people and further transform their thinking. Maybe you could speak some to this in terms of what has been achieved in the People's War in Nepal-and also what more needs to be done, including bringing women into higher levels of leadership and responsibility.

Prachand: Before the initiation, the woman question was not so seriously debated in our party. That was our weakness. And in our society, male domination, feudal relations have prevailed for a long time. In general terms we agreed, yeah, the woman question is important. As communists we know these things. But in a concrete sense, in a serious sense, I will say that before initiation we were not so serious on the woman question. And because we were not serious, therefore, many woman comrades were not at the forefront of the movement. There were some women sympathizers and some organizers, but there was not much effort to develop the women comrades.

Then right after initiation the question came up-it boldly came up. And especially in my experience, I was very thrilled when, during the first year after initiation, I saw the sacrifice women were making in the main region, in the struggling zones-their militancy, their heroism, and their devotion. When I saw women masses come into the field, then we started to debate seriously the woman question. And now the situation in the party, more or less, has mainly changed to seeing the woman question from a proletarian viewpoint. From different angles, we try to understand the woman question-what is the meaning of the woman question, what is the political and theoretical importance, and what are the practical implications in the class struggle and the whole historical perspective?

And from a practical point of view, I want to say that among the oppressed nationalities, there is not so much male domination. There is a kind of equality there. In some nationalities women are seen as more important-the wives are seen as more important than the men.

Prachand: Mainly the Mongolian nationalities, mainly Magar, and mainly in Rolpa and Rukum. Here there is not as much male domination. Women can easily divorce, and if a woman remarries the community does not look at her like she is a bad woman. The traditions are very different. More and more militant and revolutionary women cadres are coming from those nationalities. And we are trying our best to develop the leadership of those comrades.

Before the initiation there were not any women comrades in the district committees. Now there are. In Rolpa, there are three or four women comrades in the district committee, and in the secretariat also there are women comrades. And there are women comrades who direct whole area party committees, who direct whole squads. All these things they are doing. Also there are some district committee secretaries, new women comrades who have been developed and they have done a good job. And you saw in one district in the East, the DCS is a woman comrade. And in another district, near the Indian border, there is also a DCS woman comrade. In district committees, there are now more than 40 to 50 women. This shows the big change in our national structure and how we are developing the leadership qualities of women. We are also trying to bring women into regional level leadership, and we are trying to develop them on the level of central committee leadership.

In the oppressed nationalities, there is a lot of potential for developing proletarian leadership from among the women masses. And we are focusing, centralizing, our effort here to develop the leadership of women. There is also a lot of potential to develop the leadership of women from among laborers.

RW:What about the practical obstacles that women face in the home, in terms of playing a larger role? For example, when I was traveling around, I saw many women with small children, and this is a problem. Some women are able to have relatives take care of their children, but this is not always possible. Is there a vision of socializing more of the housework and childcare ?

Prachand: At this point, the practical problems women comrades are facing, we can say the whole party is facing, are mainly the question of taking care of small children. With squad members who get pregnant and have babies, there is the question of who will look after the child. Some women comrades have a good spirit to continue working, but the practical problems of caring for a baby become a big obstacle.

In the main region, what the party is trying to do, for the time being, is that when a woman has a baby, she will be placed in a secure area among the masses for about six months. She will not go back to her own home, and she will be among the masses, still doing whatever work she can do in the local area. Then after six months, she can travel with her child and other comrades can also carry the child, and the women comrades can then go and speak and organize. This is the kind of thing hundreds of women are doing. And when the child is one year old, then they can be cared for by the masses or mass organizations and the woman comrade can leave.

Now locally, the party is discussing the question of how to organize collective childcare. This question is presenting itself practically at this time. In some places, there are plans to set up a childcare house where comrades who have good experience and spirit will go and work. This plan is not finalized but is being discussed.

Also, the party is not directly pressing, but strongly encouraging men and women comrades, couples, not to have children for the time being, to not have a baby for five to seven or ten years because it will be a big practical problem. We explain that on this question, it is also a kind of sacrifice. We should have to sacrifice-don't have a baby. And there are so many cases of couples who are not having babies right now. But trying to not have children presents another problem, because Nepal is very backward and there are not health centers, there are not doctors.

Prachand: When a woman gets pregnant then the question arises of abortion-they want to have an abortion. And after several abortions the physical condition of the woman will be harmed.

Prachand: Yes, a pressing question. We tell comrades it will help if they do not have babies for the time being. But if they do have a child then we will organize the masses to solve the problem of childcare. And there are so many cases where women have a baby, and, when they have some kind of childcare outside the party's organizational setup, then the police will capture her. There are so many woman comrades who are in jail in the Western Region because of this.

Prachand:: If they leave safe areas outside the control of our organization then they will be captured by the enemy. That kind of problem also exists.

In terms of women, I want to say that another very big problem is developing leadership...

RW:And illiteracy is a big obstacle for women, right? Because the low theoretical level, educational level, presents an obstacle to women coming into higher levels of leadership.

Prachand: Yes, that is also a question. Now on the local level we are trying to develop a local education system to teach women comrades to read and write-night school. Such things are in the process of being done. But this will be a long process. It is a protracted process. Five, ten, twenty years is necessary to make everyone literate. We should teach the women comrades how to read and write. There are many women comrades now who are already literate, and we are trying our best to develop them in leadership. But illiteracy is a big problem, and we are trying to raise the level of literacy among the general masses.

RW: Before we end, could you briefly tell us about your personal background, so that people know something about you. What is your political history? What shaped your revolutionary thinking and activities? How did the class struggle, in Nepal and internationally, impact on you?

Prachand: I am from a poor peasant family from the middle region, from Pokhara. But because of the poor conditions, my family, my parents, moved from Pokhara, from the mountain area, to the Terai region-Chitwan district. My whole youth, high school, was in Chitwan district. And I started being influenced by communist ideology 28 years ago, when I was about 17 years old. At that time there were big mass movements in the area. There were student movements. There were anti-Indian expansionism mass movements. All these things impressed me. This is an area with big Indian comprador bourgeois forces and a lot of exploitation. All these things made some impression on me. And even more, what impressed me, convinced me, was the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution in China. Mao, the Cultural Revolution, all the anti-revisionist movements: all these things impressed me.

Twenty-eight years ago I became a communist, I became a party member. And after some time, there was a big two-line struggle, and I was in touch with the revolutionary comrades in the Fourth Party Congress. In the process of that two-line struggle, I came into contact with revolutionary comrades more senior than me, and we had close contact, discussion, and debate.

And in the class struggle there was a big mass movement going on. Twenty years ago there was a big mass movement, and in my district, a big women's movement and peasants' movement. This also provided the environment to develop my revolutionary thinking. At the same time, there was a big two-line struggle inside the party, and I continuously went with the revolutionary line. And when there was a split with Dumdum (M. B. Singh), then collectively we comrades, the main team in the central committee, tried to study the whole international process, the international communist movement, the Nepalese communist movement. And in that process my thinking developed.

Prachand: My main thrust is that I hate revisionism. I seriously hate revisionism. And I never compromise with revisionism. I fought and fought again with revisionism. And the party's correct line is based on the process of fighting revisionism. I hate revisionism. I seriously hate revisionism.

RW:I'd like to explore some more your comments about the international situation and, specifically, the significance of the People's War in Nepal, as part of the world revolution. What is your thinking on that, from two sides-how the People's War in Nepal can give strength to the international movement and how the international communist movement can give strength to the People's War in Nepal, that dialectical relationship?

Prachand: Objectively there is a dialectical relationship between the People's War in Nepal and the whole international situation and movement. And what we think, and I think, is that a new wave of revolution, world revolution is beginning, because imperialism is facing a great crisis. Some people are saying that economically and culturally imperialism is in deeper crisis than before World War 2. There are so many symptoms of radical change that the people's movements are seeing around the world. And from an economic, cultural and political basis, we see that a new wave of world revolution is beginning. This is fact. We have to grasp this question because just like Mao said, there will be 50 to 100 years of great turmoil and great transformation.

From a practical point of view, the People's War in Nepal is contributing to making and accelerating this new wave of revolution. And it is contributing to the organization of the international communist movement on a Maoist basis. And Maoism should be the commander of this new wave of world revolution. The People's War in Peru has done a good job of establishing Maoism. We also think that the RCP,USA has done a good job, ideologically and politically, to fight against revisionism and establish Maoism. And our party and the People's War in Nepal is also accelerating this process.

Right now, subjectively, the proletarian forces are weak-after Mao's death and the counter-revolution in China. Nepal is a small country, we are a small party-but we have a big perspective. Our People's War may be a spark, a spark for a prairie fire. We have already seen that during this three years of People's War, the Indian communists and Indian masses have been somewhat impressed. And there have been thousands and thousands of masses in New Delhi, shouting, "Long live People's War in Nepal. We will support People's War in Nepal." In every corner now in India the People's War in Nepal is the subject of debate.

We are carrying out People's War under the banner of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. Therefore we think it has played a very significant and important role among the Indian revolutionary masses and in the ideological debate in the Indian communist movement. It has also helped the RIM very much in exposing international revisionism, modern revisionism, revisionism in China and Russian revisionism. In Nepal there is a very big revisionist party and much revisionist influence. And the People's War has played a very big role in exposing all this.

This war has changed the name of the country itself-the identity of the country. It was a very backward, poor and beggar country. But now it is a country of heroes, of proletarian heroes. And now on the world's highest peak, Sargamatha (Mount Everest) - the red flag is there. This will be seen from all over the world. People will say: What country is Nepal? It is the country with the world's highest peak, Mount Everest. What is there? Heroic proletarian revolution, People's War is there. This will be seen.

Therefore we think we have a very big responsibility, we face a big challenge in this present international situation. And we will do our best. We should do our best, to the end, to fulfill our duty and responsibility.

When you are in a pond or in the middle of a lake you do not know the importance of water. But when you are in the desert, then you see that just one glass of water is very important. Today there are not many genuine People's Wars in the world. So in this desert of revolutionary war, the People's War in Nepal is one glass of water for all the revolutionary people. And we will fulfill our duty to give water to the revolutionary people.

We also see that without the experiences of the whole international communist movement-and without the help of the RIM and without the help of all the communist leaders and dedicated comrades who are keenly and seriously helping the People's War in Nepal-we will not be able to sustain and maintain the People's War in Nepal. And finally, I want to say that, although we are in weaker position subjectively, objectively a wave of revolution is beginning and we communists should dare to fight and we will win.

Red Flag Flying on the Roof of the World -Part 3

Inside the Revolution in Nepal: Interview with Comrade Prachanda

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